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I don't much like training costs.

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WyreZ
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I don't much like training costs.

Post by WyreZ »

I'd like to express my dissatisfaction for the epic level training costs.

1) They encourage solo play.
If I level up in a team, I won't loot enough to be able to take my level when my character is ready to. If I play solo, I will just be able to scrape together the right amount of gold for the next level.

2) They break flow of gameplay, roleplay, teamplay.
Having to walk back to town to find a trainer, really sucks. Especially at epic levels when, typically, you're training in places that are far away from everything. If you happen to be soloing,then there is no fast way to get back out to your training, either. It means you spend a good 30 minutes of your session running/fighting your way back to town, and then another 30 minutes fighting your way back out to where you'd like to be training. This also means it's quite time inefficient, it puts a sharp, short halt in the way of teamwork (if, for example, the rest of your team DOESN'T need to head back to town as well).

3) "You have just lost 19,518 experience points."
This just happened, because I spent the last couple of hours grinding for gold so I could take my level. I could have been over half way to my next level by now!

4) There doesn't seem to be a clear reason as to why we have them in the first place.
So far, the one reason I've heard was, "high level players have enough gold anyway." - so perhaps it is to moderate the economy of the server. But then, to be blunt, I look at the trade channel, the last three posts I've made looking for items which, while rare, shouldn't be impossible to find across the playerbase have zero responses to them - there is no 'economy' that needs moderation here. :P

Why do we have training costs?
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Lliira
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by Lliira »

Keep in mind that this is not the Classic server. There are Epic levels allowed, but to earn them, you must train.
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raradra
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by raradra »

Just like in every other game, and in real life, to learn new skills someone has to teach them to you. These people don't work for free. :)

Jeff was working on a way you could train in the field but not sure if he'll be able to finish it before he leaves :(

Remind me in 1 month, start a poll to see how hard hit people are for the gold. We may consider lowering the costs, but probably not dropping them.
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by Lliira »

Phoenix did invite others to start a discussion, almost two months ago - his last post in the ILR thread. That did not happen. :?

To be honest, experience is very easy to get/replace here. I rarely run solo, I do not even like playing when the server is empty. (Unless I am crafting.) My characters do not have enough gold, either, for more than a level or so. But I am really thankful that we did not implement the pre-2008 Epic server training costs, which were 500K to train to 21, 600K for 22, 700K for 23, etc. :shock:

Having played on the Difficult server, this place is very relaxed and fairly easy. And see? Even Raradra agrees to look at it all again, later. :)


Edit: I just looked at the Diff training cost chart. 2,000,000 gold to train to 20. :o
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Celvias
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by Celvias »

Other games cost money, sure. But not even close to this extent. If powergaming is something you're trying to push for, then you've succeeded. I'm ok with that - I enjoy powergaming and uber characters, I always have.

What is the true design goal of the high nordock training costs? Penalizing player progression.
Is it to slow players down?
Is it to prevent players from achieving max level and then getting bored?
Is it to generally keep a lower-level population in the off-chance another player is logged in, you can interact in a group with them?
Is it to deter certain types of players away from the server?

Keeping the server inaccessible is detrimental in every way you look at it. Training costs are in the module because nothing is for free in real life is just silly. Are sorcerers exempt from the training costs, since they are au naturel?

I don't see anyone walking around next to me, teaching me how to properly slay enemies. I see there's a lot of work to be done to make this right!
WyreZ
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by WyreZ »

It's unfortunate the 'train wherever' script may not be finished, it'd be perfect. :)

Aside from that, DMs - thank you for your consideration of further discussion in the matter. I'll be on holidays in a month, so you guys will have to presume that I'd love it if the costs were lowered again. :D

Cheers!
-WyreZ
Tomseltje
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by Tomseltje »

Some aditional traning centres would be nice, logical areas would be hebedizy, tobaro, thunderhammer smithy, minotaur village and fakualt city

basicly the problem is the costs are to high for the amount xp one gets for slaughtering monsters.. either lower the cost or lower the amount of xp we get.. Personally I don't experience this problem all that much (my problem is more that i get xp so fast i dont have saved up enough for epic store when i reach level 20), but then again, i dont have any characters above level 26.
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by raradra »

While we're all in limbo now until Jeff finishes moving the mod to my server, I am interested in a list of a dozen or so areas to put training centers. Preferably at places where you turn in quests anyway.

We are also discussing lowering costs slightly but again, not until the mod move is completed.
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by FooLing »

Tomseltje wrote:Some aditional traning centres would be nice, logical areas would be hebedizy, tobaro, thunderhammer smithy, minotaur village and fakualt city
I believe there already is a trainer in Tobaro (near the temple of Pholtus) and there is definitely one in the minotaur village, though it is inside the Theseus Head Inn (in fact, the one in the Inn was present before training was re-instated :) ).

Agree it would be nice to have one in Hebbdezi or at least out near the docks on the Abiz island side (perhaps near the temple there), and one in Faukault.
berylgreen
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Re: I don't much like training costs.

Post by berylgreen »

FooLing wrote:
Tomseltje wrote:Some aditional traning centres would be nice, logical areas would be hebedizy, tobaro, thunderhammer smithy, minotaur village and fakualt city
I believe there already is a trainer in Tobaro (near the temple of Pholtus) and there is definitely one in the minotaur village, though it is inside the Theseus Head Inn (in fact, the one in the Inn was present before training was re-instated :) ).

Agree it would be nice to have one in Hebbdezi or at least out near the docks on the Abiz island side (perhaps near the temple there), and one in Faukault.
I -thought- that there were trainers in Tobaro and the Mino Village, but when Tom posted, I worried that maybe they had not been added back in. At some point in the past, I thought that there was also a trainer near the docks on Kabu (in the open-air temple), but I could be wrong. Maybe it was just a decoration, a "divining pool".
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